We have a midnight shift starting at 11pm, ending at 7am. I have this setup via recurring schedule.
Timetrex correctly matches the punches (ie. IN/OUT), but groups them on the day of the IN punch.
This is a problem.. Mondays first midnight shift starts at 11pm Sunday, which causes TimeTrex to put it into Sunday.. and for us Sunday is double-time.
Is there a way to get TimeTrex to group the punches by OUT punch date?
-Bob
Midnight shift falling into wrong day
For anyone with Sunday type overtime policies and midnight shifts, this is a serious bug - since there is no way to push the shift into the next day except to advance both the IN and OUT punches into the next day.
If Overtime policies were linked to Schedule Policies, then you could use Saturday type to "mean" Sunday, etc. but it doesn't seem possible (although there is an Overtime Policy dropdown in Schedule Policy window - but its blank).
I'll need to change the behaviour for us to use the OUT PUNCH.. can you point me to the code where this decision is made?
Thanks,
-Bob
If Overtime policies were linked to Schedule Policies, then you could use Saturday type to "mean" Sunday, etc. but it doesn't seem possible (although there is an Overtime Policy dropdown in Schedule Policy window - but its blank).
I'll need to change the behaviour for us to use the OUT PUNCH.. can you point me to the code where this decision is made?
Thanks,
-Bob
I'm located in Ontario and I'm sure its not illegal since we've been operating in this fashion for at least a decade (using different T&A system), and its actually specified in our union contract.
Does it make sense that an employee gets paid double-time for his entire shift because his shift starts at 11pm on Sunday? If you ask me.. *thats* illegal! lol
We were previously using a T&A system called Winstar - and along with shift setup, there was an "assign date" flag, which was either "Backward", "Split" or "Forward".. so whenever a shift spanned two days, you could "assign it" backwards, forwards or split into two "shifts" automatically.
There must be some other customers you have out there that (1) have a midnight shift that starts prior to midnight, and (2) has a Sunday overtime policy (double-time on Sunday is common practice). How do they work around this?
The only way I can see is (1) creating a Policy Group for Midnights, and (2) removing the Sunday type overtime policy from that group.
But the problem gets more serious when there actually is a Sunday midnight shift (starting Saturday at 11pm).. current logic will actually put this in the wrong pay period (for us).
I think what I will have to do is have the Sunday shift start at 12:00am, and manually adjust his out punch by an hour... hmm.. but might that conflict with the Monday shift (which would also get slotted to Sunday)?
Well, I'll try it anyway... unless you have other ideas .. ??
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Does it make sense that an employee gets paid double-time for his entire shift because his shift starts at 11pm on Sunday? If you ask me.. *thats* illegal! lol
We were previously using a T&A system called Winstar - and along with shift setup, there was an "assign date" flag, which was either "Backward", "Split" or "Forward".. so whenever a shift spanned two days, you could "assign it" backwards, forwards or split into two "shifts" automatically.
There must be some other customers you have out there that (1) have a midnight shift that starts prior to midnight, and (2) has a Sunday overtime policy (double-time on Sunday is common practice). How do they work around this?
The only way I can see is (1) creating a Policy Group for Midnights, and (2) removing the Sunday type overtime policy from that group.
But the problem gets more serious when there actually is a Sunday midnight shift (starting Saturday at 11pm).. current logic will actually put this in the wrong pay period (for us).
I think what I will have to do is have the Sunday shift start at 12:00am, and manually adjust his out punch by an hour... hmm.. but might that conflict with the Monday shift (which would also get slotted to Sunday)?
Well, I'll try it anyway... unless you have other ideas .. ??
[/quote]
Like most things, it all comes down the details.
I still don't know that much about what all your policies are, but moving shifts that start on one day to the following day is great and all, but in some cases that just results in a 11:00AM shift starting on Saturday being moved to Sunday for which double-time would then be paid. I'm not sure if you have any such shifts, but the point I'm trying to make is that there can be a lot of things to consider for this type of situation, and if you ever do have shifts like this in the future, the same problem will rear its ugly head again.
Ontario has some interesting labor laws, and of course when unions get involved things get even more complex, but do you have the actual wording that describes what an actual "shift" constitutes when it comes to paying overtime?
Obviously every country,province/state is different, and most have exceptions when it comes to averaging agreements and unions, but British Columbia is very clear in its laws, which state:
As a side note, you may be able to remove the Sunday Overtime Policy and replace it with a Premium Policy that is only active between certain times of the day (ie: 12:00AM to 11:00PM on Sundays). However depending on your Overtime policies, this may conflict with them because unlike Overtime Policies, Premium Policies are not exclusive to one another, and other Overtime Policies do not take into account Premium Policy time during calculations.
I still don't know that much about what all your policies are, but moving shifts that start on one day to the following day is great and all, but in some cases that just results in a 11:00AM shift starting on Saturday being moved to Sunday for which double-time would then be paid. I'm not sure if you have any such shifts, but the point I'm trying to make is that there can be a lot of things to consider for this type of situation, and if you ever do have shifts like this in the future, the same problem will rear its ugly head again.
Ontario has some interesting labor laws, and of course when unions get involved things get even more complex, but do you have the actual wording that describes what an actual "shift" constitutes when it comes to paying overtime?
Obviously every country,province/state is different, and most have exceptions when it comes to averaging agreements and unions, but British Columbia is very clear in its laws, which state:
The reason I am quoting that for you, is that having similar text in your union agreement can help us resolve this issue. Trying to implement a solution without exact rules to follow is likely to be an exercise in futility, so anything exact you can provide will greatly help."day" means
(a) a 24 hour period ending at midnight, or
(b) in relation to an employee's shift that continues over midnight, the 24 hour period beginning at the start of the employee's shift;
As a side note, you may be able to remove the Sunday Overtime Policy and replace it with a Premium Policy that is only active between certain times of the day (ie: 12:00AM to 11:00PM on Sundays). However depending on your Overtime policies, this may conflict with them because unlike Overtime Policies, Premium Policies are not exclusive to one another, and other Overtime Policies do not take into account Premium Policy time during calculations.