Supervisor (subordinates only) can't see any subordinates...

[jjoelc]

I am currently testing TimeTrex v5.0.8 for our company. Overall, I am really liking it. My only real complaint so far is that it does not seem very intuitive to setup supervisors/managers and their subordinates, though I understand WHY it is setup the way it is..

Having said that, I actually have two questions:
1-
I currently ave an administrator account, a manager account, and three employee accounts. The three employees are all listed as subordinates to the manager account under [Company-> Hierarchy]and the manager is assigned to the "Supervisor (subordinates only)" role under [Company->Permission Groups]. However, when logged into the manager account, I am unable to see any information (timesheets, employees, etc.) about any of the subordinates. If I switch the manager account to the "Supervisor (all employees)" permission group then I am able to see and edit the subordinate employees properly. I am obviously doing something wrong here, but for the life of me, I don't see it! Suggestions?

2-
Where in the source files are the templates for the various reports stored? Specifically, I need to customize the look of the Timesheet detail printout (Where it prints the timesheets one employee per page with blanks for the employee and supervisor to sign...)

Thanks again for the great product, and in advance for the help!

[shaunw]

1-
I currently ave an administrator account, a manager account, and three employee accounts. The three employees are all listed as subordinates to the manager account under [Company-> Hierarchy]and the manager is assigned to the "Supervisor (subordinates only)" role under [Company->Permission Groups]. However, when logged into the manager account, I am unable to see any information (timesheets, employees, etc.) about any of the subordinates. If I switch the manager account to the "Supervisor (all employees)" permission group then I am able to see and edit the subordinate employees properly. I am obviously doing something wrong here, but for the life of me, I don't see it! Suggestions?

Did you select all the objects in the hierarchy, specially the "Permissions" object?

Where in the source files are the templates for the various reports stored? Specifically, I need to customize the look of the Timesheet detail printout (Where it prints the timesheets one employee per page with blanks for the employee and supervisor to sign...)

The reports aren't based on template files, to modify the look you need to modify the actual source code itself, and each time you upgrade to a new version you will need to merge your changes over manually as well.

[jjoelc]

Did you select all the objects in the hierarchy, specially the "Permissions" object?

Originally, this was selected for the manager, yes, but not for the subordinates. Since you asked, I did add the permissions object to the subordinates hierarchy also. Testing the manager account though, and I am still unable to see the subordinates info... ??

[shaunw]

If the hierarchy has the permission object assigned to it, and they are setup correctly, then the Supervisor (Subordinates Only) permissions should work properly.

For further help we would need to see screenshots of your hierarchies.

[jjoelc]

Thanks for the prompt help! below are screenshots of my hierarchy, just let me know if you need others or to see something specific.

Hierarchy Overview -


Manager details -


Manager details showing subordinates -


Employee details -

[shaunw]

So which employee are you logging in as that can't see the subordinates?

[jjoelc]

When logging in as the Engineering Manager, unable to see any of the engineering employees

[jjoelc]

Ah... I got it to work. I will setup a second test department to make sure I understand...

It appears that in the EMPLOYEE setup, under the HIERARCHY tab, the settings in there got jumbled (Probably my own doing, this is a learning setup, so I expect to break a few things along the way!) Once I got those hierarchy setting in line, the manager account was able to see the subordinates.

So, if I understand correctly, there seems to be a bit of redundancy in the hierarchy settings. At the company level, you setup the actual hierarchies and assign superiors and subordinates, but at the employee level, you assign the employee to a specific hierarchy.

The next question then is: When you assign a new employee to a certain hierarchy (on the employee tab) does the employee automatically get added to the existing hierarchy's list of supervisors/subordinates, or do you have to also go to the company->hierarchy section and add the specific employee as a subordinate/superior there as well?

[shaunw]

The Hierarchy tab when editing an employee is a quick way to assign that employee as a subordinate to whatever hierarchies you choose. It achieves the exact same thing as going into the hierarchy itself and assigning the employee as a subordinate that way. In TimeTrex there is usually at least two ways to do the same thing.

[jjoelc]

OK, so in employee->hierarchy, should you choose that employees immediate "supervisor" (next step up the hierarchy) for each section, or should I choose the hierarchy level that specific employee is a part of?

so assuming a hierarchy of:
1-Payroll admin
2-manager
3-employee

When setting up a new employee, under the hierarchy tab, My understanding is that I would choose "3-employee" under each hierarchy section? (as appropriate, of course, I'm simplifying...) And doing that would add the employee to the correct level when you go look at the company->hierarchy tab.

[shaunw]

You simply choose whichever hierarchy you want the employee to appear in as a subordinate.

[jjoelc]

The Hierarchy tab when editing an employee is a quick way to assign that employee as a subordinate to whatever hierarchies you choose

As soon as I did that... nothing worked again... I just don't get it... it should be simple enough... So I figured that I had to have really screwed something up. Uninstalled TimeTrex, manually deleted all the "Leftover" files, re-installed from scratch...

Still the same... This is getting aggravating...

My hierarchy: (all 8 objects selected for all levels)
--Admin - Shouldn't have any superiors, and managers are subordinates (I have tried listing the admin account as level 1 superior when it would complain that none had been assigned)
--EngineeringManager - admin is level 1 superior, and engineering employees are subordinates
--EngineeringEmployee - Engineering Manager is level 2 superior, then admin is level 1 superior, no subordinates
--NewsManager - Admin is level 1 superior, News Employees are listed as subordinates
--NewsEmployees - News Manager is level 2 superior, then admin is level 1 superior, no subordinates.

Employees:
admin - works properly, full admin account
manager1 - Engineering Manager. Permission group is set to "Supervisor (Subordinates Only)" Hierarchy tab lists "admin" for all sections.
user1 - Engineering employee 1 - Permission group is set to "Regular Employee", Hierarchy tab lists EngineeringManager for all sections
user2 - another engineering employee, all settings same as user1 (above)
manager2 - News Manager. Permission group is set to "Supervisor (Subordinates Only)" Hierarchy Tab lists "admin" for all sections.
user3 - News Employee 1. Permission group set to "Regular Employee", Hierarchy tab lists NewsManager for all sections
user4 - another new employee, all settings same as user3 (above)

Logging in as administrator works exactly as expected.
logging in as any user works exactly as expected.
logging in as either manager1 or manager2, the only info they can see is their own. going to the "Employees" section will only show the manager in the list, and if you don't move the mouse while the list is loading, there is a "permission denied" balloon the appears just beside the "Employees" button, but the balloon vanishes as soon as the mouse is moved.

the only time I have had the manager accounts see any of their subordinates info, the settings for each employee's hierarchy tab (Employee->edit->hierarchy) all pointed to the level of that employee (so manager1's hierarchy tab listed "EngineeringManager" all the way down the line, and user1's hierarchy tab read "EngineeringEmployee" all the way down the line. As soon as I changed those settings after reading your explanation of them, the managers accounts went right back to not being able to see their subordinates, and reverting the settings back made no difference. That was the point that I decided I had really screwed something up and uninstalled the whole thing and started from scratch again...

[shaunw]

It sounds like you aren't understanding how the hierarchy works and I'm not understanding your description of your setup. (hence the reason we always ask for screenshots)

I think you should simplify things to help out, there should only be one[/]b hierarchy, the managers hierarchy, where the managers are the superiors and the employees are the subordinates. That is all that is required for any of the managers (superiors) to login and view their subordinates. If you only add one manager as the superior, that will help even more.

Each hierarchy defines a really simple superior -> subordinate relationship and they never interact with other hierarchies, and multiple superiors in one hierarchy are never considered subordinates either.

[jjoelc]

First off, I want to apologize if I sounded "snippy" or anything in my last post. I'll be the first to admit I was getting frustrated (really with myself) at that point. You have been very helpful. So thank you for that.

I Finally get it. I was trying to build the entire chain into each hierchy. Where it listed "Superiors", I wasn't thinking about the "Superior" or "Leader" of that specific hierarchy, I was thinking "next hierarchy up the chain"... I hope that helps explain my confusion, lol.

So, at this point, I have one hierarchy, with one "superior" (manager) and two employees. and it is working as expected. (Thanks again!) How do I add an "assistant manager" into that chain? So the "manager" can see the "assistant manager" and the employees, and the "assistant manager" can see the employees, but not the "manager"?

[shaunw]

Since each hierarchy is its own separate entity, to deal with an assistant manager you need to do two things.

1. Add the assistant manager to the original hierarchy at the same level as the current manager (level 1). This will allow the assistant manager to see those subordinates along with the manager. Essentially you are saying they share the same responsibilities as they are both at level 1.

2. For the Manager to see the assistant manager, you must create a totally new hierarchy with the manager as the only superior and the assistant manager as the only subordinate. This hierarchy allows the manager to see the assistant.

Now, there is more at play than just the above though, and that comes down to the objects each hierarchy has selected too. Questions like how requests or timesheet verifications are to be handled can change how your hierarchy may be setup. But from a strictly permission object perspective, the above should do what you want.